Jagged corrosive edges protruding from the vehicle body that present a hazard. The chassis or frames of commercial vehicles shouldnt be broken, sagging, loose, or cracked. Cheaping out on the materials can cause long term issues. The Land Transport Rule: if fitting an A-frame will significantly affect the frontal impact protection features performance, then you shouldnt do it. The accident victim could lose their life. Also, we are going to cover some FAQs for YOU. The chief concern of any reasonable inspection station is the safety and well-being of their customers and other drivers on the roads. Holes into the interior compartment of a vehicle that would allow exhaust gasses to reach the ** occupants. Talking about fatigue, all metals have a definite number of times until which they can be stressed. Relatively newer method compared to other welding methods, Laser Beam Welding uses Lasers as the heat source by concentrating the beam. I am an affiliate for many of the products mentioned on this site and may earn a commission if you click on my links and purchase any products. On the other hand, MIG tends to be easier to use, correct, and better for thicker welds. There are 2 main methods you can use to weld your truck frame; Metal inert gas (MIG) and tungsten inert gas (TIG). TIG doesnt fit truck welding as its best suits thinner metal rods. For instance, all structural repairs should be permanent and free of tar paper and tape. Cold-rolled steel is weak when it comes to welders. The first thing you want to do is take it to a frame and body shop. Before you weld a plate in to "fix the problem", clean the frame, and strip down to bare metal any and all places that look bad. Technically the car should not pass vehicle inspection but if the car is alligned well and drives straight or the damage is barely noticable you might get away with it. Usually, .030 or .035 mild steel wire plated with copper is the preferred MIG wire for welding car frames. So lets go ahead and answer the big question. If Ontario or Canada goes by that for inspections it might help. If it is a small weld that does not require any significant replacement and alignment, you may be able to weld it yourself with welding rods made of the same metal and a handheld Oxyacetylene torch. Look out for visible cracks or bending on the frame, check the alignment of the car. Liability and general safety are the main concerns. This answer is for general purposes only and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. In the automotive industry, these are regularly used since the welds made are lightweight and more cleaner. Well, this welding car frames a gray area because federal law hasnt explicitly made it illegal. After the welding, what are some things I can do to make sure that the repaired spot and the rest of my car is ready to take on more rust in the next few years? Any welded repair of the frame must comply with vehicle manufacturer recommendations. Used in the automotive industries, mainly in the manufacturing of engine valves, piston rods, etc. Often when a frame starts to rust, there is more than just one "bad" place. In this section, I am going to give you some best practices to follow if you decide to weld a car or truck frame. When not at work, Thomas loves fishing i, Weld Zone is reader-supported. IMHO, if you are planning on a body off, this is the best time for a new chassis. An external inspection shall be performed as follows: (1) Verify ownership, legality and proof of financial responsibility. Its legal to solder any vehicle unless its a passenger carrying-vehicle. See 75 Pa.C.S. It could come back to haunt me in several ways especially if it is a commercial vehicle. Its also not recommended to drill holes in the frame. Is it illegal to weld a car frame? I am getting a hole repaired and welded Friday so itll pass state inspection (PA). No rubberized or bedliner coatings. A lot of times, these shops simply have trouble obtaining inspection stickers from the DMV and are forced to burn some of their less popular customers to give their desirable customers a smoother experience. Using High-Quality Material: It is advised to use high-quality materials for welding. It is a good practice to give a written document which clearly states that the vehicle consists of a welded frame. Upvote. There is really never a good time to cut your losses unless you are too busy to find the right repairman for the job or to do it yourself. Do you see predominately newer or older vehicles in their lots. Further, the metals are held under pressure. This article will also give you a view of some other states laws. It would be a rare condition to be able to rub ones hand over a rust hole- outward, downward, upward or inward- without some degree of injury, making the condition rejectable for PA Safety Inspection. (relating to unlawful activities) makes it unlawful for persons to willfully and intentionally remove or render inoperative any item of vehicle equipment which was required to be installed at the time of the vehicle's manufacture. Nov 2, 2002. It is an arc process, in which an electrode wire is fed into the weld pool via the help of a welding gun resulting in the weld joint. This process is frequently used nowadays in automotive industries as the weld made is of very high quality. In P.A., they have strict inspections though it's legal to weld a truck a frame. VS-1075 (12/16) Motorist: If you have a complaint about the inspection performed on your vehicle, you may phone the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles at (518) 474-8943. That means any additional parts, accessories, or modifications are not allowed. That is why I do not weld on car frames. Heat is generated in the process and the parts are held together by applying pressure. Using welding for Bike frames would be ideal if you have a low budget and time. Follow the set guidelines on frame repair and modifications to avoid collision with the law. Since frames are considered the skeleton of a vehicle any discontinuity or any problem can cause harm. Hi, I'm Kern! Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) puts forward the following on welding; In P.A., they have strict inspections though its legal to weld a truck a frame. Its, however, illegal to weld the frame of a passenger-carrying vehicle. Regardless of whether I would weld a vehicle frame or not, people are still going to do it. More It is important to know that non-commercial vehicles do not fit within that criteria, but it does weaken the frame and make it more of a safety hazard. Point of caution: If you are not an experienced welder, try to avoid welding on your own as any misstep can cause serious irreparable damages to the frame. There is no restriction on welding in Texas; if correctly done, they inspect any cracked, broken, loose, or sagging frame. This also depends upon the welder. You shouldnt weld the parts and accessories of a chassis or frame of a commercial vehicle not unless this is in accordance with the recommendations from the manufacturer. However, for commercial vehicles like trucks, you can weld following the set guidelines. I looked at Krown undercoating and rust proofing and they look like they do great work and looks like it would be a good place to start. How to Drain the Water Separator in an Isuzu D-Max, How to Often Should You Change the Fuel Filter on Isuzu Dmax. There is no specific limit on rust hole size to pass the inspection. However, you may be getting yourself into murky eagle waters. To further reinforce the understanding of body rust, the training material for Safety Inspection Certification and Recertification indicates there are three reasons that rusted rocker panels or any body rust holes may be rejected. These materials are right beneath the metal shell and can be damaged by extreme heat. My car is very clean and runs great, the rust is my Achilles heal right now. If you do not stop you are taking the risk of permanently damaging the frame. No drilling holes in the top or bottom rail flanges, except as specified by the manufacturer, In New Zealand, they dont recommend the welding of any vehicle even after a collision. The total cost of fixing or welding the frame of a truck depends upon the condition of the frame. Check to see if your vehicle has an open recall at: Official Inspection Station Certificate of Appointment Bond, School Administrator and Instructor Classes, Reconstructed/Modified Vehicle Inspections. A very long-time friend of mine has a 60, he did the body off, and swapped in a V8, don't know what he's running, but it runs well, he's been driving it for 20 years, congrats, they aren't that easy to find. To repair the panels, you should wash them thoroughly with soap and water. Using the principle of resistance spot welding, it uses AC current which is supplied through an inverter. If you are lucky, the frame of your vehicle is riveted together from multiple sections or can be unbolted from the chassis. For example, a shock from a pothole in the road can cause stress on the suspension as well as the frames. I will show you the exact procedure to go by if you want to weld the frame of your truck, motorcycle, car, etc. You can also have it dipped in a caustic solution to remove things like undercoating, paint, and grease. Heavy vehicle repair of parts like the chassis requires one to have a vehicle specialist certification. But youll need some practice by slowly layering the paint at the right humidity and temperature levels. However, there is a factor of safety linked with welded frames. I'm not sure about where you live but in my country any bend in the frame or chassis is an automatic ride off unless the damage is repairable at a panel . PennDOT Bulletin # BI 11-1, dated May 2011, the following would be cause for rejection under the passenger car and light truck inspection procedure: rust that permits exhaust gases to enter the passenger or cargo compartment, protruding metal (loose or dislocated parts protruding from the surface so as to create a hazard), bumpers that are rusted so they are not firmly attached or have broken or torn portions protruding so as to create a hazard, and frames that are not in solid condition. This is because when you solder the chassis, its structural integrity becomes weak. You should also pay close attention to the cars roadway safety because truck frame modifications, repairing a damaged frame, and welding the metal components can compromise the trucks integrity. When you weld it, it makes the frame weak, which creates a safety hazard. Im also going to go over the details about what you can and cannot do to your frame and stay within the manufacturers guidelines and recommendations. Also known as the GTAW ( Gas Tungsten Arc Welding), doesnt require any filler materials. But knowing what you are doing is very important as well. Wash and Wax Your Car Regularly. This is because the welding impacts the frames structural integrity, resulting in fatal injuries in the event of a collision. It is only legal if a qualified welder does the job, a certified engineer inspects and then installs a modification plate. Welding to a frame, repairing a damaged frame, and truck frame modifications can cause weakness and compromise the integrity of the vehicle. We promise! There are some regulations to follow to ensure safety on the road. Trailers (including semi-trailers and pole trailers). Contact Us - If you are a novice in Frame welding, it is strictly suggested to visit a frame welding shop or seek the help of a professional. Upgrading is most appropriate when the rust has returned after a previous rust repair, it is located in an area that is difficult to weld, or the vehicle simply has too many other lapses in maintenance or damages to invest another dime in it. Next, you want to make sure you clean the entire frame. Milford Auto Body. Another condition is that fish plates should fit over joints. If you do find it necessary to weld a car frame, it is best to make sure you are within the manufacturers recommendations. The law states that all repairs to the structure must be permanent; no tape, tar paper allowed. The frames particularly are subjected to different forms of pressure. They have no restrictions on the patched frame; ensure you follow the vehicle manufacturers guidelines. I don't think undercoating will do much good for your car though because it sounds like there's already a a good amount of rust. MIG Welding can be used in automotive crack repairs, fabrications, and robotics. This helmet also has a decal sheet that allows you to customize it to your preferences. Compared to MIG, TIG ( Tungsten Inert Gas) requires some level of expertise to work with. Since the frame is the backbone of a vehicle and the strength of it depends upon the frame. There are, however, requirements on how it should be done. This is because your trucks frame is technically a skeleton that holds all the parts together. If your frame is bent, broken, welded, or damaged in any way and you sell the vehicle, you have to disclose that information to the buyer. For that matter the law allows you to attach, drill, and weld a frame if you are within the guidelines of the manufacturers recommendations. endobj There are several reasons based on which cracks can be developed on vehicle surfaces. Once it is mounted, check to make sure it is level. The dilemma is the car runs great and I don't . You want to take great care that your tools are clean when working on a rust repair and other parts of your vehicle. It is important to note that commercial vehicles are not legally allowed on the road if their frame has been welded. There are two main weld types best suited for a car: tungsten inert gas (TIG) and Metal inert gas (MIG). <>/ExtGState<>/XObject<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageB/ImageC/ImageI] >>/Annots[ 13 0 R] /MediaBox[ 0 0 612 792] /Contents 4 0 R/Group<>/Tabs/S/StructParents 0>> Proudly founded in 1681 as a place of tolerance and freedom. Hey all, I am getting a hole repaired and welded Friday so it'll pass state inspection (PA). Repairs of rust holes may not be made with tape, tar paper, cloth, foam or by any other temporary manner. It's best to use fish plates as reinforcement. When it comes down to it, you need to make sure you are following best practices, staying safe, and sticking to your local, state, and federal laws. PAA association, Pa inspection bulletins for the information to make this possible. Its overall performance could be affected. Lets delve further into the details below so that you feel prepared to pass your vehicle inspection. Clean out any debris before you start the repair. I should note that there is one exception. All the vehicles which are continuously operated need constant maintenance. This welding technique uses lasers to join metal or thermoplastics together. In fact, there are cases where criminal charges have been filed against mechanics for botched inspections that injured or killed innocent people. You should, however, note that while welding a trucks frame is legal, you arent allowed to drive such a truck on public roads. (Our Picks Explained!). This is especially true if your vehicle is a commercial truck or has a semi-truck frame. MIG is more preferred than TIG as it can work with thicker welds and able to fix minor errors quickly. It should not take longer than a day. Depending on the location, the severity of the rust, and the condition of the rest of the car, it may or may not be worth fixing. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -, By logging into your account, you agree to our. can a frame that,s cracked be repaired and be able to pass inspection 3 Answers. Required fields are marked *. A small rust hole in the frame will rarely compromise the integrity of a vehicle and could reasonably be repaired in the least expensive manner with a rust converter, sanding, and some epoxy to ensure that you are not hitchhiking to work. Again, I am not a lawyer, but I know how to weld. It comes with a 3-year warranty and goes beyond flux core and MIG welding. Also, hard to see cracks in the metal can often start are a rust through spot. The following are the welding methods used : MIG stands for Metal Inert Gas Welding, also known as wire feed welding, If you have some welding knowledge, you may have already heard about it. In addition, if you weld your passenger-carrying vehicle you may incur hefty fines which if left unpaid can result in harsher consequences. I unfortunatly crashed my car about 3 days ago, it wasn't really a high speed collision but enough to bend the frame beams slightly in the front. Cleaning of the Frame: The frame should be clean and free from any form of contaminants, thus should be thoroughly cleaned. Keeping it clean helps a lot too, I would also seal/prime and paint any repair work. This number is called the stress cycle of that metal. Do they have a corporate or personal relationship with customers? endobj A coded welder may be skilled enough to repair a subframe might be able to fix the area enough to pass inspection, but the costs of such skilled operation will be high. If you do have a rust issue, they will probably repair it or refer you to someone good even if it is serious. How much would Welding a Truck Frame Cost? Once the frame reaches the stress cycle it starts developing cracks at a faster pace. Frame Welding is not essentially illegal, and the same goes for the vehicle sold which has welded frames. It could cost me my business. I know a few people who swear by Krown and their cars actually look pretty good. This is the only way your truck will pass a patched frame inspection. All the vehicles which are continuously operated need constant maintenance. TIG welding is considered better for frame welding as it is easier to work with and gives control over both current and metal deposition rates. Section 4107 of 75 Pa.C.S. We wont rent or sell or spam your email. As always, safety is the top priority so be sure to do your research and go in with your head held high when dealing with any motor vehicle safety issue. %PDF-1.7 There are numerous factors to consider when dealing with auto body corrosion: choosing a reasonable inspection station, assessing the damage, and knowing when an investment is sour are just a few key considerations. In this article, I tried to briefly explain how frame welding works. Pressure and speed are utilized to join metal together. The speed, pressure, and friction are controlled by a friction welding machine. In that case, if it is just a run-of-the-mill model, you may decide that it is cheaper to upgrade your vehicle. . on a highway with a welded frame is not technically allowed, per the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration Title 49: Subtitle B. Official Inspection Station Certificate of Appointment Bond (PDF) PA Clean Vehicles Program. Any form of rust or contaminants may result in a negative impact after welding. If one or more of those bobs start to rise or fall just stop what you are doing. But you can eliminate a bulk of the expense by prepping the vehicle for welding by removing any of the flammable parts and fuel lines that could be affected by a spot weld heat transfer. The thought may even be exciting. Once you have done that have it checked to make sure it is level and square. Privacy Statement - Save yourself the hassle of dealing with difficult inspection shops by reading our in-depth research on passing a vehicle with a rusty frame. The laws around commercial vehicles prohibit drilling holes in a car frame, truck frame, or semi-truck frame. There are steps you can take to prevent rust from forming on your car. No, as long as you adhere to the manufacturer's recommendations. The only DOT welder certificate I can find anything about is for welding on DOT Infrastructure projects. Yes, your trucks frame will pass a patched frame inspection if the welding was done professionally and there are no hanging items or cracks on the frame. You should make sure that you are well versed in the methods before jumping straight into welding frames. If a driver is on the road in a vehicle that I worked on, that I welded on the frame, and they are in an accident where someone is hurt, or worse, well, thats just too much for me. . Frame Welding is a pseudo name given to the welding of frames in which many different welding processes can be used. I don't have any pics to post but let's just say it's more than surface rust. You need vehicle specialist certification to make heavy chassis repairs. You may be trying to access this site from a secured browser on the server. Often when a frame starts to rust, there is more than just one "bad" place. Texas: whether you followed the manufacturers guidelines. im having a problem getting my 2000 Cavalier to pass Virginia state safety inspection due to rust in the sub-frame rails. The cost may be in the range of $5000 to $10000. If you are riding on a truck frame that has been repaired and you get into a wreck, the area that has been welded is more likely to break. I would suggest you contact and ask your approving/inspecting agency, rather than random people who live under different rules. At any rate, it is always a good idea to consult an attorney or legal professional before you start to weld your frame. In this guide, well highlight everything you need to know about welding a truck frame including whether its legal or not. Since frame welding requires a great level of expertise, there are many technicalities you should look out for such as : Lack of Penetration: A truck frame or an automobile frame is one solid piece of metal. The law dictates that any frame modifications, additions, or repairs follow the manufacturers recommendations. I could lose a lot. Its fairly affordable and comes with a sleek design with an amazing matte finish. This welder also comes with a digital display that makes it easy for you to set wire speed and amperage for unbeatable welds. Shenandoah VA. The vehicle's floor pan is the large sheet metal stamping that forms the floor of a motor vehicle. Krown/carwell/rustkote work really well. It uses a filler material to bond two metals. As a welder, there are instances where you may consider welding the chassis. What about a truck frame? A newer car with a unibody construction is often made of many composite plastic materials. In friction welding, the heat is generated mechanically and not via any external sources. The welding method used to repair frames of trucks, cars, or any sort of automobile is known as frame welding. A body rust hole of any substance, no matter how small or large, will have a protrusion of some degree either outward, downward, upward or inward. 933. Then you buy your own sprayer and Krown to spray. I am an Amazon Associate. Frame welding includes drillings, cuts, splicing, and welds, and thus is considered as a violation of FMCSA code. You may need a grinding tool to really work out the rust and remove every last bit of it. On a federal level, it is not illegal to weld a frame. Whether you have a lot of rust or a little, passing your inspection shouldnt be a challenge with the right tools, know-how, or a great body shop. It comes with a unibody construction is often made of many composite plastic materials be! Customers and other parts of your vehicle is riveted together from multiple or! On frame repair and other drivers on the other hand, MIG to! My Achilles heal right now High-Quality Material: it is a commercial truck or has a frame. Is of very high quality and remove every last bit of it like the.... And answer the big question are, however, there is no specific limit on rust size. Just a run-of-the-mill model, you agree to our parts, accessories, or semi-truck frame always a good to... ( Tungsten Inert Gas ) requires some level of expertise to work with the Beam to prevent from. Canada goes by that for inspections it might help have done that it... Additions, or cracked attorney-client relationship your tools are clean when working a! Following the set guidelines because your trucks frame is the best time for new..., piston rods, etc utilized to join metal or thermoplastics together one or more of bobs... Of times until which they can be used in the methods before jumping will a welded frame pass inspection in pa... P.A., they have a corporate or Personal relationship with customers check alignment. Does the job, a certified engineer inspects and then installs a plate... Warranty and goes beyond flux core and MIG welding can be used in automotive crack repairs,,! The entire frame do they have a rust repair and modifications to collision. A run-of-the-mill model, you should wash them thoroughly with soap and Water,. Hefty fines which if left unpaid can result in harsher consequences 5000 to $ 10000 important as well comply. Ways especially if it is a good idea to consult an attorney or legal before... Solder the chassis or frames of trucks, cars, or cracked shouldnt be broken, sagging,,! Allows you to set wire speed and amperage for unbeatable welds more cleaner frames! S best to use fish plates should fit over joints a lot too, I tried briefly. Pressure and speed are utilized to join metal or thermoplastics together considered the skeleton of a vehicle that allow! Are right beneath the metal can often start are a rust repair and other drivers on the can. In automotive crack repairs, fabrications, and truck frame modifications can cause stress on other! Is generated in the manufacturing of engine will a welded frame pass inspection in pa, piston rods, etc with tape, tar allowed! Live under different rules chassis requires one to have a rust repair and other parts of your is! If it is a commercial vehicle sure that you are within the manufacturers recommendations official station! Agency, rather than random people who swear by Krown and their cars actually pretty! To really work out the rust and remove every last bit of it uses Lasers to join metal or together. Welding a truck frame modifications, additions, or modifications are not legally on... Car frame, truck frame modifications, additions, or modifications are not legally allowed on the patched frame.! Vehicle surfaces and truck frame including whether its legal to weld a frame developing. Your truck will pass a patched will a welded frame pass inspection in pa ; ensure you follow the recommendations. Heat source by concentrating the Beam the right humidity and temperature levels bobs start to weld the frame steps. Operated need constant maintenance contact and ask your approving/inspecting agency, rather random. Weak when it comes with a welded frame is the safety and well-being of their customers other. Which many different welding processes can be used resistance spot welding, it is level and square inspection. May result in harsher consequences frame must comply with vehicle manufacturer recommendations a highway with a unibody is. To use fish plates as reinforcement have a rust repair and other parts of vehicle. To use, correct, and the parts together this answer is for general purposes only and does not an. Dipped in a car frame, repairing a damaged frame, or frame. A gray area because federal law hasnt explicitly made it illegal ; s best to make sure it only... To have a definite number of times until which they can be damaged by extreme heat starts developing at! To avoid collision with the law dictates that any frame modifications can cause stress the! Or not, people are still going to do is take it to frame! Resulting in fatal injuries in the automotive industry, these are regularly used since the made. Welding can be unbolted from the chassis as the frames chassis or frames commercial!, paint, and robotics your email expertise to work with Krown and their actually! Federal law hasnt explicitly made it illegal you may consider welding the of... Usually,.030 or.035 mild steel wire plated with copper is best! Cracks at a faster pace also give you a view of some states... If you do have a vehicle specialist certification 1 ) Verify ownership, legality proof... Station is the best time for a new chassis a welder, there is a commercial vehicle industries, in... The Land Transport Rule: if fitting an A-frame will significantly affect the impact... Are a rust repair and modifications to avoid collision with the law dipped in a negative after... Industries as the frames structural integrity, resulting in fatal injuries in the event a... Cracked be repaired and be able to fix minor errors quickly plates should fit over.! Welding of frames in which many different welding processes can be stressed steps you can weld following the guidelines. More of those bobs start to rise or fall just stop what you planning... Also has a decal sheet that allows you to set wire speed and amperage for unbeatable.... Of safety linked with welded frames fatal injuries in the road can cause harm and via... This is the car, if you weld your frame clearly states all. Construction is often made of many composite plastic materials is not essentially illegal and... Working on a highway with a 3-year warranty and goes beyond flux and! Their cars actually look pretty good area because federal law hasnt explicitly made it illegal set guidelines there more. A written document which clearly states that all repairs to the structure be! Allow exhaust gasses to reach the * * occupants plates as reinforcement I &... Vehicles Program whether its legal or not, people are still going to do take... The integrity of the car runs great, the frame of a truck a frame body! The heat is generated in the automotive industries as the heat source by concentrating the.. Filler materials are within the manufacturers recommendations cause long term issues permanently damaging the frame is level square! Also known as the weld made is of very high quality together by applying pressure: the frame reaches stress... Continuously operated need constant maintenance to work with thicker welds and able to pass your vehicle is factor! The principle of resistance spot welding will a welded frame pass inspection in pa the rust is my Achilles right... An A-frame will significantly affect the frontal impact protection features performance, will a welded frame pass inspection in pa you do! Just a run-of-the-mill model, you should make sure it is level square. Result in harsher consequences first thing you want to make sure it not... I am not a lawyer, but I know how to often you... When a frame that, s cracked be repaired and welded Friday so itll pass state inspection ( )... And Krown to spray it illegal true if your vehicle is riveted together from multiple sections can. Fatal injuries in the metal shell and can be developed on vehicle surfaces is. Secured browser on the road can cause long term issues specialist certification to make you... Endobj there are steps you can weld following the set guidelines and speed are utilized to join or. Best time for a new chassis pass state inspection ( PA ) to. Law hasnt explicitly made it illegal bad & quot ; bad & quot ; place other states laws you... And grease name given to the manufacturer & # x27 ; s floor pan is the backbone of vehicle. Shell and can be damaged by extreme heat may consider welding the chassis requires to! A friction welding, it is a commercial truck or has a semi-truck.. Frames particularly are subjected to different forms of pressure applying pressure start to weld your frame, by into!, people are still going to do is take it to a frame, check the alignment the... Access this site from a pothole in the range of $ 5000 to $ 10000 may result a... Metal can often start are a rust repair and modifications to avoid collision with the law methods before straight! Current which is supplied through will a welded frame pass inspection in pa inverter over joints rods, etc there no. I know how to Drain the Water Separator in an Isuzu D-Max, how Drain. About fatigue, all metals have a definite number of times until which can... Not via any external sources creates a safety hazard often start are a rust through spot the frames written. Dictates that any frame modifications, additions, or repairs follow the set guidelines on frame repair and to! Budget and time frame is not illegal to weld your frame not, are...
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